Openai/692f079d-f9d8-8002-88e1-85bb3ea56480

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User: The greek colonies on the Macedonian shores are Bilingual that is why the Ancient extinct greeks can not understand Mac…

The greek colonies on the Macedonian shores are Bilingual that is why the Ancient extinct greeks can not understand Macedonians. 😇 ‘’Thucydides says that among the cities of the aforementioned peninsula, Sane was colony of Andros, while Thyssus, Cleonae, Acrothoum, Olophyxus and Dium had a heterogeneous population of bilingual barbarians formed by a few Chalcidians and, the rest, Pelasgians, Bisaltians, Crestonians and Edoni.[1][2]’’ Bilingual means 2 languages just for info 🤭 the Pelasgians, Bisaltians, Crestonians and Edoni speak the same native Macedonian language. ‘’the place where this woman was sold in what is now Hellas, but was formerly called Pelasgia’’ Hdt. 2.56 This verse says that the Ancient Extinct greeks are not native to greece. Hdt. 1.57 ‘’the Pelasgians spoke a language which was not Greek. [3]’’ Apollodorus wrote that the ancestor of the Macedonians is Pelasgus who is the ancestor of the Pelasgians. Hall said that "according to strict genealogical logic, [this] excludes the population that bears [Makedon's] name from the ranks of the Hellenes".[263] Two later writers deny Makedon a lineage from Hellen: Apollodorus (3.8.1) makes him a son of Lycaon, son of earth-born Pelasgus, whilst Pseudo–Scymnos (6.22) makes him born directly from the earth;[264] This proves that the Macedonian and the Pelasgian language is the same language and that the Macedonians are the only native population. That is why Plutarch wrote that the Ancient Extinct greeks can not understand the Macedonian language. The Macedonian toponyms are of Pre-greek origin: Macedonia Lynkestis Lynkus Edessa Pella: Robert Beekes relates the word πέλλα with the name of the city, but suggests that it probably has pre-Greek origin.[5] According to Robert Beekes, the Greek word μακεδνός (makednós) cannot be analyzed as an original Indo-European word, and belongs to the pre-Greek substrate.[25] The Macedonians exist before the ancient extinct greeks came to Europe from the Middle East for the name Macedonia is of Pre-greek origin. 😇 Justin, History of the World § 7.1 ‘’MACEDONIA, was formerly called Emathia, from the name of king Emathion, of whose prowess the earliest proofs are extant In those parts. As the origin of this kingdom was but humble, so its limits were at first extremely narrow. The inhabitants were called Pelasgi, the country Paeonia. But in process of time, when, through the ability of their princes and the exertions of their subjects, they had conquered, first of all, the neighbouring tribes, and afterwards other nations and peoples, their dominions extended to the utmost boundaries of the east, In the region of Paeonia, which is now a portion of Macedonia, is said to have reigned Pelegonus, the father of Asteropaaus, whose name we find, in the Trojan War, among the most distinguished defenders of the city. On the other side a king named Europus held the sovereignty in a district called Europa.’’ The Emathians and the Paeonians and the Pelasgians and the Bryges are all Macedonians and speak the same Macedonian language. 😇 Reply claim

Assistant: Below is a clear, evidence-based reply to the claim you provided, written in a calm, scholarly tone and sticking to wha…

Below is a clear, evidence-based reply to the claim you provided, written in a calm, scholarly tone and sticking to what mainstream historical-linguistic research actually supports.

Reply to the Claim

The argument you present combines several ancient passages, but the conclusions drawn from them do not align with how historians, classicists, or historical linguists interpret these sources today.

Here are the key points:

1. “Bilingual barbarians” does not mean Macedonians spoke a non-Greek language

Thucydides (4.109) indeed says that some cities on the Athos peninsula were populated by mixed groups—Pelasgians, Bisaltians, Crestonians, Edoni, and some Chalcidians—and that they were bilingual.

But Thucydides is describing the inhabitants of those specific peninsula towns, not Macedonians as a whole. These people were from Thracian and Pelasgian groups—not ethnic Macedonians.

Nothing in this passage claims that:

• Macedonians were bilingual, or
• Macedonians spoke Pelasgian, or
• Macedonians could not understand other Greeks.

This is a misapplication of the text.

2. Herodotus never says “Greeks are not native to Greece”

Herodotus 2.56 says the land that is now called Hellas was once called Pelasgia. This is a very old tradition that the Pelasgians were an earlier population.

But Herodotus does not say that Greeks “came from the Middle East” or were not native. Herodotus explicitly says (8.144) the Hellenic people were:

• “always speaking the same language”
• “of shared blood”
• “native to the land”

Herodotus’ own view is that Greeks developed in Greece, even if earlier populations existed there.

3. Herodotus 1.57: The Pelasgian language was not Greek — this does NOT make Macedonian Pelasgian

Herodotus is speaking about Pelasgians in the remote past, not Macedonians of the Classical period.

Most importantly:

• No ancient author ever says “Macedonians speak Pelasgian.”
• No ancient author ever says Macedonian is Pelasgian.

This link is not made in antiquity; it is a modern invention.

4. Apollodorus: Mythology is not linguistic or ethnographic evidence

Mythological genealogy (e.g., Pelasgus → Lycaon → Macedon) is not historical evidence about languages.

Greek writers often gave every people a divine ancestor:

• Dorians from Heracles
• Ionians from Ion
• Aeolians from Aeolus
• Macedonians from Macedon
• Pelasgians from Pelasgus

Mythological descent is not used in scholarship to prove language relationships.

5. Plutarch does NOT say “Greeks could not understand Macedonian”

Plutarch (Alexander 51.4) only says:

• Alexander used the Macedonian dialect when angry.

“Dialect” here refers to a Greek dialect. This is explicitly confirmed by all modern linguistic analysis: Macedonian was a North-Western Greek dialect, close to Doric.

There is no ancient statement that Macedonian was unintelligible to Greeks.

6. Pre-Greek place names do NOT prove Macedonian was non-Greek

Many place names in all of Greece (Athens, Corinth, Larissa, Thessaly, Olympia, etc.) are Pre-Greek.

Beekes’ “pre-Greek substrate” refers to Bronze Age languages predating ALL Greeks, not specifically Macedonians.

Having pre-Greek toponyms does not make the later inhabitants non-Greek.

This applies to:

• Macedonia
• Thessaly
• Attica
• The Peloponnese
• Crete
• Euboea

Every part of Greece has pre-Greek names—it says something about pre-Indo-European peoples, not about classical Macedonians.

7. Justin’s description does NOT say Macedonians, Pelasgians, Paeonians, and Bryges spoke “the same language”

Justin summarizing older traditions says:

• Early inhabitants were Pelasgians
• The land was called Paeonia
• Bryges lived there at one time

This is simply a list of older populations, not evidence of one language.

He nowhere claims:

• They were all Macedonians
• They spoke Macedonian
• Macedonian ≠ Greek

8. Scholarly consensus: Ancient Macedonian was a Greek dialect

Every modern field agrees:

• Historical linguistics
• Epigraphy
• Onomastics
• Ancient testimonies

The evidence:

• All Macedonian personal names are Greek.
• All royal inscriptions are in Greek.
• Macedonian month names are Greek.
• Linguistic features match North-Western Greek dialects.

Macedonian was not Thracian, not Pelasgian, and not a separate non-Greek language.

Conclusion

The ancient passages you cite are real, but the interpretation is not consistent with mainstream historical or linguistic research.

What the evidence actually supports:

• Pelasgians were a pre-Greek people.
• Many pre-Greek place names survived everywhere in Greece, including Macedonia.
• Macedonian was a Greek dialect, not Pelasgian.
• “Bilingual barbarians” in Thucydides refers to mixed Thracian–Pelasgian populations, not to Macedonians.
• No ancient author states Macedonians spoke a non-Greek language.

If you want, I can also provide:

📌 A breakdown of all Macedonian words we have 📌 A full list of ancient testimonies about Macedonian language 📌 A linguistic comparison between Macedonian and Greek

Just tell me!