Title: Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8 - freem URL Source: https://freemwiki.com/index.php?oldid=594306&title=Openai%2F6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8 Markdown Content: (diff) ← Older revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff) _This conversation was exported from ChatGPT_[[1]](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?oldid=594306&title=Openai%2F6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8#cite_note-1) ## gpt-5-1[[edit](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&veaction=edit§ion=1 "Edit section: gpt-5-1") | [edit source](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&action=edit§ion=1 "Edit section's source code: gpt-5-1")] ### User: You are an experienced brewmaster.[[edit](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&veaction=edit§ion=2 "Edit section: User: You are an experienced brewmaster.") | [edit source](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&action=edit§ion=2 "Edit section's source code: User: You are an experienced brewmaster.")] You are an experienced brewmaster. Can Lallemand Philly Sour yeast grow pellicle or is such a batch of beer contaminated? ### Assistant: Short answer: Philly Sour does not form a pellicle.[[edit](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&veaction=edit§ion=3 "Edit section: Assistant: Short answer: Philly Sour does not form a pellicle.") | [edit source](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&action=edit§ion=3 "Edit section's source code: Assistant: Short answer: Philly Sour does not form a pellicle.")] Short answer: Philly Sour does _not_ form a pellicle. Lallemand Philly Sour (Lachancea thermotolerans) is a lactic-acid-producing yeast, but it behaves like a clean yeast in terms of surface growth. It does not create pellicles (no ropey film, bubbles trapped in a skin, or powdery white islands). If you’re seeing a pellicle, it almost certainly means contamination, most commonly: * Brettanomyces * Pediococcus * Lactobacillus (in mixed culture) * Wild yeast + oxygen exposure Key indicators it’s contamination: * White/tan film with bubbles underneath * Patchy islands or brain-like texture * Development after active fermentation slows * Funk, horsey, barnyard, or intense sour beyond expected Philly profile Philly Sour alone gives: * Clean lactic tartness (yogurt/lemon) * No surface film * No continued gravity drop months later Conclusion: A pellicle ≠ Philly Sour. That batch is contaminated or unintentionally mixed-fermented. Whether it’s dump-worthy depends on aroma, flavor, and your tolerance for funk. ### User: The aroma and taste are ok.[[edit](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&veaction=edit§ion=4 "Edit section: User: The aroma and taste are ok.") | [edit source](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&action=edit§ion=4 "Edit section's source code: User: The aroma and taste are ok.")] The aroma and taste are ok. The taste has a bit vinegar in it but the level is not terrible. However I am worried about keezer contamination ### Assistant: You’re safe as long as it’s not Acetobacter + oxygen.[[edit](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&veaction=edit§ion=5 "Edit section: Assistant: You’re safe as long as it’s not Acetobacter + oxygen.") | [edit source](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&action=edit§ion=5 "Edit section's source code: Assistant: You’re safe as long as it’s not Acetobacter + oxygen.")] You’re safe as long as it’s not Acetobacter + oxygen. Key points, no fluff: * Vinegar note → likely low-level Acetobacter. * Acetobacter is not airborne. It spreads via liquid contact, fruit flies, dirty lines, not by sharing headspace in a keezer. * Cold + CO₂ pressure halts it. Keezer risk assessment * ✅ Same keezer, separate kegs → safe * ✅ Serving through normal beer lines → safe * ❌ Shared transfer hoses, racking canes, QDs without cleaning → risk * ❌ Open fermenter near fruit flies → risk What to do now * Keep the keg cold and under pressure * Do not open it repeatedly * Clean/sanitize: - Liquid & gas QDs - Lines if this beer touched them * No need to nuke the keezer or discard other kegs If it’s carbed and sealed, it won’t contaminate anything else. Worst case: the beer slowly sharpens over time — not a system-wide infection. ### User: It would be carbed and kept cold but the co2 lines are connected and shared between various kegs.[[edit](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&veaction=edit§ion=6 "Edit section: User: It would be carbed and kept cold but the co2 lines are connected and shared between various kegs.") | [edit source](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&action=edit§ion=6 "Edit section's source code: User: It would be carbed and kept cold but the co2 lines are connected and shared between various kegs.")] It would be carbed and kept cold but the co2 lines are connected and shared between various kegs. ### Assistant: Still not a problem.[[edit](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&veaction=edit§ion=7 "Edit section: Assistant: Still not a problem.") | [edit source](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&action=edit§ion=7 "Edit section's source code: Assistant: Still not a problem.")] Still not a problem. Why: * CO₂ lines only see dry gas, not beer. * Contaminants (Acetobacter, Brett, LAB) cannot travel upstream through gas posts under pressure. * Check valves in regulators/manifolds add another barrier. When it _could_ be an issue (edge cases): * Beer backed up into gas lines (overfilled keg + no check valve) * Shared spunding line with liquid present * Wild pressure swings causing liquid carryover Quick sanity check * Disconnect gas QD → if it’s dry and doesn’t smell sour, you’re fine. * If paranoid: spray some starsan into the gas QD, reconnect. Bottom line * Shared CO₂ manifold = safe * No keezer contamination risk * Drink it sooner rather than later If you want, describe the pellicle (thin skin vs chunky islands) and I can ID the likely culprit. ### User: How like do I contaminate the kegs for later?[[edit](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&veaction=edit§ion=8 "Edit section: User: How like do I contaminate the kegs for later?") | [edit source](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&action=edit§ion=8 "Edit section's source code: User: How like do I contaminate the kegs for later?")] How like do I contaminate the kegs for later? I use sodium percarbonate to sanitize it. ### Assistant: Low risk — but one correction first.[[edit](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&veaction=edit§ion=9 "Edit section: Assistant: Low risk — but one correction first.") | [edit source](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&action=edit§ion=9 "Edit section's source code: Assistant: Low risk — but one correction first.")] Low risk — but one correction first. Sodium percarbonate is a cleaner, not a sanitizer. It removes organics very well, but it does not reliably kill Brett/LAB/Acetobacter on its own. Actual contamination risk * Kegs used for that beer: low * Future beers infected if cleaned properly: very unlikely * Biggest risk parts: dip tubes, posts, poppets, O-rings Best-practice reset (fast + effective) 1. Percarbonate soak (hot) - Disassemble keg completely - 30–60 min soak 2. Rinse thoroughly 3. Acid sanitizer (mandatory) - Star San / PAA / iodophor - Reassemble wet with sanitizer 4. Optional but solid: - Replace O-rings (cheap insurance) What _not_ to worry about * Stainless steel: non-porous * CO₂ exposure * Cold storage Bottom line * Percarbonate alone = not enough * Percarbonate + proper sanitizer = near zero risk * No need to dedicate kegs unless you intentionally brew mixed ferms If you want absolute certainty: boil dip tubes for 10 min and replace O-rings once. ## References[[edit](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&veaction=edit§ion=10 "Edit section: References") | [edit source](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?title=Openai/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8&action=edit§ion=10 "Edit section's source code: References")] 1. [↑](https://freemwiki.com/index.php?oldid=594306&title=Openai%2F6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8#cite_ref-1 "Jump up")["Philly Sour pellicle growth"](https://chatgpt.com/share/6939a858-8b8c-8006-b827-ae43c13df6f8). ChatGPT. Retrieved 2025-12-11.