Editing Openai/691a2d9f-c044-8012-bccf-942bfce6334d (section)

=== User: Reddit post with comment thread... ===
Reddit post with comment thread... heh. why do i feel i can just about sort of induce/figure out a way to do the impossible...get you to generate "novel ideas" to a large extent.. :D

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4h ago
DiligentAd565
ChatGPT just regurgitates what I say
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Hi, so I use ChatGPT mainly for analyzing thoughts, ideas and systems. So quite conceptual stuff and often not very concrete. But I find that more and more when I have an idea and ask what to do with this, the "new" ideas ChatGPT spits out are pretty much just spun from the text I gave it, and there is nothing original about it. Words are different and it's explained in a different way, but it seems like it's the same stuff but just repackaged.

How do I get ChatGPT to be original and actually have novel worth to give me?
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thrownededawayed
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4h ago
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    How do I get ChatGPT to be original and actually have novel worth to give me?

Give it genuine sentience? You're kinda asking why the toy we just made isn't a world mind yet, we're still in the part where it's a baby and babbling back words while we clap and pat it's head for making human speech noises.

It has no qualitative reasoning skills, it has no ability to conceptualize novel ideas, nor fully understand what a "novel idea" would be from a human perspective. It turns your input into a multi-dimensional math problem, assigns every word and letter and glyph a number, sends it into an impossibly complex algorithm, and through repeated training it taught itself to return a response that gets a head pat from us.

We're unfortunately nowhere near the point where a conscious mind exists in the machine, it looks at all the work it's been trained on and echos back bits and pieces assembled together in a way that we discern as human speech. What you're describing is the goal, not our current benchmark.
15
u/DiligentAd565 avatar
DiligentAd565
OP •
4h ago

Thanks, great answer. In light of this, what do you think ChatGPT is useful for in its current state?
4
thrownededawayed
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4h ago
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Currently, you can feed it a word salad of a question, a question that is a paragraph and a half long that you don't quite know how to articulate but know what you're looking for, it can discern your meaning, parse a huge amount of information quickly, summarize and present it to you.

For instance I asked it at what height a Concorde jet breaks the sound barrier, and how long it would take an observer on the ground below it to hear the boom. It's a perfectly normal question, but it's so specific that googling it would get me a hodgepodge of answers that I'd have to figure out the answer for myself, whereas LLM's are able to do a vast number of google searches, extrapolate the pertinent information, and give me a concise answer (about 25-30 seconds).

It then informed me that a shockwave isn't one big singular "boom" like I thought, but rather a continuous cone of noise, that the "boom" a person hears is when that cone passes over them on the ground, and it clicked with me that is why Concordes weren't allowed to fly anywhere but the Atlantic, I thought that the singular "boom" would piss off whomever was under it when it went off, but knowing that it's one long sweeping "boom" that hits everyone it passes over makes a lot more sense why it could only go supersonic above water.

If you have to ask something that would take you half a day and a dozen rabbit holes to go down, LLM's can quickly go down those holes for you and pull out the interesting stuff, discount dead ends, maybe clue you in to the interesting stuff you would have found if you travelled it yourself. It's like having a digital librarian who is able to interpret your question, know exactly what books to look through in the library to find an answer and give it back to you. I could ask it anything about movies that have already been made, but getting it to make a new movie would mean it's looking through books about the past to try to scry the future, it's using the wrong tool for the job, at least right now.
6
walkerboh83
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1h ago

This is an excellent answer. I've used my journals to write a story with it. Told it to change settings and names. Great stuff. It has been a bit flaky at times, not changing names and coming up with very strange devices in place of technology in medieval settings(not fantasy).
1
EscapeFacebook
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2h ago
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Meta's lead researcher just left because he said llms are a dead end technology
1
u/evanldixon avatar
evanldixon
•
6m ago

It's great at turning words into ideas then back to words. Depending on the prompt, it can then link to new ideas from its training data to answer questions. I find that it does better when the question is specific enough to point towards new ideas not stated in the prompt but vague enough to give it some room to work. It requires some back and forth, because sometimes it latches onto the wrong idea in the prompt and runs with it. And other times it doesn't have enough to work with and just restates what you tell it.
1
Nearby_Minute_9590
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3h ago

I don’t think the model is performing as expected in this case. This task doesn’t require consciousness, but it does require that it understands the task while following rules, which it can do.
2
Exclave4Ever
•
3h ago

I agree with mostly what you said but I also think majority of it is false because of the assumptions you're making.

You're trying to say that AI can't reason and you're not acknowledging the fact that humans most of them are so bad at reasoning that AI has already surpassed most humans capacity to reason and therefore the results right now are mostly beyond what a normal human would produce.

So to be realistic it is providing the reasoning already people just don't want to accept that

A conscious mind doesn't need to be present in order for humans and pretty much anything with logic and intelligence associated to reason in a way that is beneficial
0
thrownededawayed
•
4h ago
Profile Badge for the Achievement Top 1% Commenter Top 1% Commenter

    How do I get ChatGPT to be original and actually have novel worth to give me?

Give it genuine sentience? You're kinda asking why the toy we just made isn't a world mind yet, we're still in the part where it's a baby and babbling back words while we clap and pat it's head for making human speech noises.

It has no qualitative reasoning skills, it has no ability to conceptualize novel ideas, nor fully understand what a "novel idea" would be from a human perspective. It turns your input into a multi-dimensional math problem, assigns every word and letter and glyph a number, sends it into an impossibly complex algorithm, and through repeated training it taught itself to return a response that gets a head pat from us.

We're unfortunately nowhere near the point where a conscious mind exists in the machine, it looks at all the work it's been trained on and echos back bits and pieces assembled together in a way that we discern as human speech. What you're describing is the goal, not our current benchmark.
15
u/DiligentAd565 avatar
DiligentAd565
OP •
4h ago

Thanks, great answer. In light of this, what do you think ChatGPT is useful for in its current state?
4
thrownededawayed
•
4h ago
Profile Badge for the Achievement Top 1% Commenter Top 1% Commenter

Currently, you can feed it a word salad of a question, a question that is a paragraph and a half long that you don't quite know how to articulate but know what you're looking for, it can discern your meaning, parse a huge amount of information quickly, summarize and present it to you.

For instance I asked it at what height a Concorde jet breaks the sound barrier, and how long it would take an observer on the ground below it to hear the boom. It's a perfectly normal question, but it's so specific that googling it would get me a hodgepodge of answers that I'd have to figure out the answer for myself, whereas LLM's are able to do a vast number of google searches, extrapolate the pertinent information, and give me a concise answer (about 25-30 seconds).

It then informed me that a shockwave isn't one big singular "boom" like I thought, but rather a continuous cone of noise, that the "boom" a person hears is when that cone passes over them on the ground, and it clicked with me that is why Concordes weren't allowed to fly anywhere but the Atlantic, I thought that the singular "boom" would piss off whomever was under it when it went off, but knowing that it's one long sweeping "boom" that hits everyone it passes over makes a lot more sense why it could only go supersonic above water.

If you have to ask something that would take you half a day and a dozen rabbit holes to go down, LLM's can quickly go down those holes for you and pull out the interesting stuff, discount dead ends, maybe clue you in to the interesting stuff you would have found if you travelled it yourself. It's like having a digital librarian who is able to interpret your question, know exactly what books to look through in the library to find an answer and give it back to you. I could ask it anything about movies that have already been made, but getting it to make a new movie would mean it's looking through books about the past to try to scry the future, it's using the wrong tool for the job, at least right now.
6
walkerboh83
•
1h ago

This is an excellent answer. I've used my journals to write a story with it. Told it to change settings and names. Great stuff. It has been a bit flaky at times, not changing names and coming up with very strange devices in place of technology in medieval settings(not fantasy).
1
EscapeFacebook
•
2h ago
Profile Badge for the Achievement Top 1% Commenter Top 1% Commenter

Meta's lead researcher just left because he said llms are a dead end technology
1
u/evanldixon avatar
evanldixon
•
6m ago

It's great at turning words into ideas then back to words. Depending on the prompt, it can then link to new ideas from its training data to answer questions. I find that it does better when the question is specific enough to point towards new ideas not stated in the prompt but vague enough to give it some room to work. It requires some back and forth, because sometimes it latches onto the wrong idea in the prompt and runs with it. And other times it doesn't have enough to work with and just restates what you tell it.
1
Nearby_Minute_9590
•
3h ago

I don’t think the model is performing as expected in this case. This task doesn’t require consciousness, but it does require that it understands the task while following rules, which it can do.
2
Exclave4Ever
•
3h ago

I agree with mostly what you said but I also think majority of it is false because of the assumptions you're making.

You're trying to say that AI can't reason and you're not acknowledging the fact that humans most of them are so bad at reasoning that AI has already surpassed most humans capacity to reason and therefore the results right now are mostly beyond what a normal human would produce.

So to be realistic it is providing the reasoning already people just don't want to accept that

A conscious mind doesn't need to be present in order for humans and pretty much anything with logic and intelligence associated to reason in a way that is beneficial