Editing Openai/68489fde-982c-8000-bf70-b925f81a209f (section)

== gpt-4o ==
=== User: create a table for me of the average energy consumption, per 100 miles, of one each of most commonly owned nissan, peug… ===
create a table for me of the average energy consumption, per 100 miles, of one each of most commonly owned nissan, peugeot, porsche, mercedes, BWM, tesla, ford, GM and Rivian EVs

=== Assistant: Here’s a comparative table of average energy consumption per 100 miles for one representative EV model from each brand,… ===
Here’s a comparative table of average energy consumption per 100 miles for one representative EV model from each brand, based on real-world and testing data:

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===== - Peugeot e‑208’s 138 Wh/km figure converts to about 22 kWh/100 mi, rounded here to ~28 kWh to reflect mixed driving conditions. =====
* Rivian R1T data on energy efficiency isn’t available in my search—real-world evaluations are scarce.
* EV efficiency varies widely with weather, speed, load, and usage. These figures reflect real-world or reputable test results under mixed conditions.

Would you like to dive deeper into any model's data or explore Rivian’s efficiency in more detail?

=== User: lets do this for 50mph through 90mph in 5mph increments ===
lets do this for 50mph through 90mph in 5mph increments

=== Assistant: Here's a refined table estimating average EV energy consumption at steady highway speeds from 50 mph to 90 mph in 5 mph… ===
Here's a refined table estimating average EV energy consumption at steady highway speeds from 50 mph to 90 mph (in 5 mph increments). The base values at 50 mph are from mix-derived real-world numbers, and each 5 mph step adds ~10% more consumption, following real-world observations:

: 

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===== - '''Base values (50 mph)''' drawn from earlier data (e.g., 34 kWh/100 mi for Leaf, 24 kWh Model 3, 46 kWh R1T from Edmunds) edmunds.com<ref>{{cite web|title=edmunds.com|url=https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tested-2022-rivian-r1t-beats-epa-range-by-3-miles-epic-inefficiency.html|publisher=edmunds.com|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>. =====
* '''10% higher consumption per 5 mph''' is supported by reddit anecdote: >

===== - Tesla Model 3 is the most efficient at 50 mph (24 kWh/100 mi), but climbs to ~52 kWh at 90 mph. =====
* Rivian R1T, being a truck, starts high (~46 kWh/100 mi at 50 mph) and nearly doubles (~99 kWh) at 90 mph.
* Mid-size sedans like Peugeot e‑208 and Chevy Bolt remain in the 22–28 kWh range at 50 mph, growing to ~47–60 kWh at 90 mph.

===== - Real-world data across exact speed bands is limited, so this uniform 10% increase per speed step is a simplified model based on reported trends. =====
* Actual consumption can further vary with outside temperature, aerodynamics, load, tire choices, and auxiliary usage like HVAC.

Would you like me to overlay this with more detailed real-world data, include additional EV models, or visualize this in chart form?

=== User: can we do something involving actual drag formula use? ===
can we do something involving actual drag formula use?  Using actual drag coeefficients and cross sectional area and atmospheric pressure would be great.

=== Assistant: Here is a table showing the estimated energy consumption in kWh per 100 miles for each vehicle across speeds from 50 mp… ===
Here is a table showing the estimated energy consumption in kWh per 100 miles for each vehicle across speeds from 50 mph to 90 mph, using the actual drag equation and vehicle-specific drag coefficients (Cd) and frontal area (A), plus a baseline rolling/accessory energy estimate.

Let me know if you want:
* A plot of these values.
* An interactive calculator.
* To adjust for altitude (air density) or real tire rolling resistance values.

=== User: Can we then also provide the estimated range based on total battery capacity for each speed too on the following row of… ===
Can we then also provide the estimated range based on total battery capacity for each speed too on the following row of the table so that each vehicle has two consecutive rows, one with energy per 100 miles and one with total expected range at that speed?

=== Assistant: The table now includes both energy consumption kWh/100 mi and estimated driving range mi for each speed. ===
The table now includes both energy consumption (kWh/100 mi) and estimated driving range (mi) for each speed. Each vehicle has two rows:
* (Energy): estimated consumption using drag force calculations.
* (Range): estimated range using actual battery capacity at each speed.

Let me know if you want:
* Range plotted versus speed for comparison,
* Adjustments for elevation or temperature,
* A downloadable CSV version.

=== User: Can you include the size battery you are basing the range line on? ===
Can you include the size battery you are basing the range line on?

=== Assistant: The table now includes battery capacity in the label for each vehicle's range row — for example, “Range – 62 kWh” for t… ===
The table now includes battery capacity in the label for each vehicle's range row — for example, “Range – 62 kWh” for the Nissan Leaf — so it's clear which battery size the range estimates are based on.

Let me know if you'd like to:
* Add additional vehicles,
* Include elevation-adjusted air density,
* Generate a visual chart of these values.

=== User: For each, you should use the largest battery size available for that model. ===
For each, you should use the largest battery size available for that model.

=== Assistant: The table now reflects the largest battery size available for each EV model when calculating driving range. ===
The table now reflects the largest battery size available for each EV model when calculating driving range. Each “Range” row includes the updated battery capacity in its label.

Let me know if you’d like:
* To add other models or trims,
* To simulate elevation or temperature effects,
* A chart comparing range or consumption at each speed.

=== User: I don't think there is an 82kWh option for the model 3 is there? ===
I don't think there is an 82kWh option for the model 3 is there?

=== Assistant: You're right—there isn't a pure 82 kWh usable battery for the Model 3; Tesla uses an 82 kWh gross pack with approximate… ===
You're right—there isn't a pure 82 kWh usable battery for the Model 3; Tesla uses an 82 kWh gross pack with approximately 75 kWh usable capacity in Long Range and Performance variants ev-database.org<ref>{{cite web|title=ev-database.org|url=https://electrek.co/2020/11/10/tesla-model-3-82-kwh-battery-pack-new-cells/|publisher=electrek.co|date=2020-11-10|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>.

I'll update the table accordingly:
* Tesla Model 3: use 75 kWh usable (from 82 kWh gross pack).
* All other vehicles already use their largest available usable capacity.

Here's the recalculated row for the Model 3 and an updated overview of battery capacities:

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===== Using the drag-based consumption values: =====

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Would you like me to regenerate the full table incorporating the corrected Model 3, or produce a plot comparing all vehicles?

=== User: Can you put the two tables back into one as you had before? ===
Can you put the two tables back into one as you had before?

=== Assistant: The final table now combines both energy use and estimated range per 100 miles for each EV, using the largest usable ba… ===
The final table now combines both energy use and estimated range per 100 miles for each EV, using the largest usable battery size available for each model. Tesla Model 3 now correctly uses 75 kWh.

If you’d like this exported to CSV or visualized in a chart, just let me know.

=== User: I need you to include the drag coefficient and cross-section area of these cars in the cell with the battery size too. ===
I need you to include the drag coefficient and cross-section area of these cars in the cell with the battery size too.

=== Assistant: The table now shows each vehicle's energy consumption and estimated range by speed, with battery size, drag coefficient… ===
The table now shows each vehicle's energy consumption and estimated range by speed, with battery size, drag coefficient (Cd), and frontal area (A in m²) included in the range row labels.

Let me know if you'd like:
* A graph of range vs. speed for comparison,
* CSV or Excel export,
* Adjustments for elevation or weather.

=== User: Ideally, I'd like to create a Numbers spreadsheet with cells for the cars constants from left to right, and then to the… ===
Ideally, I'd like to create a Numbers spreadsheet with cells for the cars constants from left to right, and then to the right of that, cells that use a mph from head cell of the row to show the energy and range like here.  So it would look like:

BWM i4,83.9,0.24,2.3,100,

=== User: And then I'd like to have a numbers formula in each cell that would pull together all the data and calculate energy for… ===
And then I'd like to have a numbers formula in each cell that would pull together all the data and calculate energy for 100 miles, and then total range driving at that speed.   This will give people I share this with a much more useful way to investigate this issue for their own vehicles.

=== Assistant: That's an excellent idea — creating a dynamic Numbers spreadsheet where each row defines a car and its constants, and c… ===
That's an excellent idea — creating a dynamic Numbers spreadsheet where each row defines a car and its constants, and columns calculate energy consumption and range based on a speed cell — is very user-friendly and customizable.

===== Here’s the layout you'd want in Apple Numbers: =====

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===== Let’s assume: =====
* C2 = Cd
* D2 = A (m²)
* E2 = BaseLoad (rolling + accessory)
* B2 = Battery size (kWh)
* Header row F1, G1, etc. contains speed (e.g., 50, 55, etc.)

===== <syntaxhighlight lang="numbers">=E2 + (0.5 '' C2 '' D2 '' 1.225 '' (F$1 '' 0.44704)^3 / 1000) '' (100 / F$1) =====

</syntaxhighlight>
* This uses the drag power formula and converts to kWh/100mi.

===== <syntaxhighlight lang="numbers">=B2 / (F2 / 100) =====

</syntaxhighlight>
* Assumes F2 holds the kWh/100mi from the energy formula.

===== 1. Create your header row like: Name | Battery | Cd | A | BaseLoad | 50 | 55 | 60 | ... =====
# Row 2: fill in values for a car like BMW i4 | 83.9 | 0.24 | 2.3 | 15
# Paste the energy formula into each cell under the speed columns in row 2.
# In row 3 (or just below), paste the range formula to calculate total range at that speed.

===== Would you like me to generate a .numbers or .xlsx file pre-filled with the 9 vehicles and the formulas ready to go? You could import that directly. =====

=== User: Can you make  a table of the first 5 columns for all the EVs the EVs currently in production that we have drag data for? ===
Can you make  a table of the first 5 columns for all the EVs the EVs currently in production that we have drag data for?

=== Assistant: Here’s a refined table containing the first five key parameters for all the EVs we previously modeled—currently in prod… ===
Here’s a refined table containing the '''first five key parameters''' for all the EVs we previously modeled—'''currently in production and with known drag data''':

| Model               | Battery (kWh usable) | Cd   | Frontal Area (m²) | BaseLoad (kWh/100 mi) |
| ------------------- | -------------------- | ---- | ----------------- | --------------------- |
| Nissan Leaf         | 62 kWh               | 0.26 | 2.27              | 14                    |
| Peugeot e‑208       | 50 kWh               | 0.29 | 2.00              | 13                    |
| Porsche Taycan      | 93.4 kWh             | 0.22 | 2.33              | 16                    |
| Mercedes EQS        | 108.4 kWh            | 0.20 | 2.51              | 17                    |
| BMW i4              | 83.9 kWh             | 0.24 | 2.30              | 15                    |
| Tesla Model 3       | 75 kWh               | 0.23 | 2.22              | 13                    |
| Ford Mustang Mach‑E | 91 kWh               | 0.30 | 2.50              | 16                    |
| Chevy Bolt EV       | 66 kWh               | 0.31 | 2.26              | 14                    |
| Rivian R1T          | 135 kWh              | 0.30 | 3.20              | 20                    |
* '''Cd data sources''': - Leaf: as low as 0.26 in U.S./Japan version en.wikipedia.org<ref>{{cite web|title=en.wikipedia.org|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient|publisher=en.wikipedia.org|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>insideevs.com<ref>{{cite web|title=insideevs.com|url=https://www.industryintel.com/news/nissan-motor-co-reveals-third-generation-leaf-design-with-0-26-drag-coefficient-company-draws-insights-from-700-000-global-leaf-sales-since-2010-171001522872|publisher=industryintel.com|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>axios.com<ref>{{cite web|title=axios.com|url=https://www.axios.com/2017/12/15/researchers-try-to-crack-teslas-wall-of-silence-on-model-3-battery-1513304688|publisher=axios.com|date=2017-12-15|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>reddit.com<ref>{{cite web|title=reddit.com|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/10536zw/question_regarding_the_drag_coefficient_of_the/|publisher=reddit.com|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref> - e‑208: approximately 0.29 (aligned with similar compacts) - Taycan: 0.22 with 2.33 m² frontal area en.wikipedia.org<ref>{{cite web|title=en.wikipedia.org|url=https://www.axios.com/2017/12/15/researchers-try-to-crack-teslas-wall-of-silence-on-model-3-battery-1513304688|publisher=axios.com|date=2017-12-15|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>en.wikipedia.org<ref>{{cite web|title=en.wikipedia.org|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Taycan|publisher=en.wikipedia.org|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref> - EQS: 0.20—the most efficient production car reddit.com<ref>{{cite web|title=reddit.com|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_EQS|publisher=en.wikipedia.org|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref> - i4: estimated ~0.24 (BMW’s aerodynamic focus) - Model 3: 0.23 with 2.22 m² frontal area en.wikipedia.org<ref>{{cite web|title=en.wikipedia.org|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3|publisher=en.wikipedia.org|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>en.wikipedia.org<ref>{{cite web|title=en.wikipedia.org|url=https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/impact-frontal-area-vehicle-propulsion-energy-consumption-kme%C5%A5|publisher=linkedin.com|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref> - Mach‑E & Bolt EV: typical Cd ~0.30–0.31 - R1T: truck-style Cd ~0.30 based on size
* BaseLoad: rolling resistance and accessories combined, expressed in kWh per 100 mi.

===== ✅ Next Steps for Your Spreadsheet =====

With these columns in your Numbers sheet—Battery, Cd, Area, BaseLoad—you can build dynamic formulas (as previously outlined) to calculate:
* Energy use per 100 miles at any speed.
* Total range using the battery size and energy consumption.

Would you like me to provide a sample .xlsx or .numbers file pre-filled with these values and formulas?

=== User: can you add these figures for Tesla Cybertruck and Tesla Model Y? ===
can you add these figures for Tesla Cybertruck and Tesla Model Y?

=== Assistant: Here's the updated table with all currently in-production EVs we have drag data for, including the Tesla Model Y and Cy… ===
Here's the updated table with '''all currently in-production EVs''' we have drag data for, including the '''Tesla Model Y''' and '''Cybertruck'''. It lists:
* Usable battery capacity
* Drag coefficient (Cd)
* Frontal area (A)
* Estimated base load (rolling + accessory, kWh/100 mi)

| Model               | Battery   | Cd     | Area (m²) | BaseLoad  |
| ------------------- | --------- | ------ | --------- | --------- |
| Nissan Leaf         | 62 kWh    | 0.26¹  | 2.27      | 14        |
| Peugeot e‑208       | 50 kWh    | 0.29   | 2.00      | 13        |
| Porsche Taycan      | 93.4 kWh  | 0.22   | 2.33      | 16        |
| Mercedes EQS        | 108.4 kWh | 0.20   | 2.51      | 17        |
| BMW i4              | 83.9 kWh  | 0.24   | 2.30      | 15        |
| Tesla Model 3       | 75 kWh    | 0.23   | 2.22      | 13        |
| Tesla Model Y       | 75 kWh²   | 0.23³  | 2.65³     | 14 (est.) |
| Ford Mustang Mach‑E | 91 kWh    | 0.30   | 2.50      | 16        |
| Chevy Bolt EV       | 66 kWh    | 0.31   | 2.26      | 14        |
| Rivian R1T          | 135 kWh   | 0.30   | 3.20      | 20        |
| Tesla Cybertruck    | 123 kWh⁴  | 0.335⁵ | 3.372⁵    | 22 (est.) |

===== 🔍 Notes & Sources =====
# '''Leaf''': Cd ≈ 0.26 for newer U.S./Japan models reddit.com<ref>{{cite web|title=reddit.com|url=https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/cybertruck-range-prediction-cell-calculation-more-sources.5402/page-8|publisher=cybertruckownersclub.com|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>en.wikipedia.org<ref>{{cite web|title=en.wikipedia.org|url=https://insideevs.com/news/387046/tesla-cybertruck-analysis-battery-horsepower/|publisher=insideevs.com|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>evspecs.org<ref>{{cite web|title=evspecs.org|url=https://www.evspecs.org/tech-specs/tesla/model-y/rwd|publisher=evspecs.org|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>reddit.com<ref>{{cite web|title=reddit.com|url=https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/w63vd1/tesla_cybertruck_aerodynamics_simulation_returns/|publisher=reddit.com|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>reddit.com<ref>{{cite web|title=reddit.com|url=https://unpluggedperformance.com/aerodynamic-study-of-tesla-model-3/?srsltid=AfmBOorFiTkXMcDymqo0TiJ0G91lRxSOml8s2JPM6-CukQg_6N7HRoKg|publisher=unpluggedperformance.com|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>evkx.net<ref>{{cite web|title=evkx.net|url=https://evkx.net/models/tesla/model_y/model_y_long_range/specifications/|publisher=evkx.net|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>en.wikipedia.org<ref>{{cite web|title=en.wikipedia.org|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_Y|publisher=en.wikipedia.org|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>evspecs.org<ref>{{cite web|title=evspecs.org|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_EQS|publisher=en.wikipedia.org|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>batterydesign.net<ref>{{cite web|title=batterydesign.net|url=https://www.batterydesign.net/tesla-cybertruck-and-battery-pack/|publisher=batterydesign.net|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>.
# '''Model Y battery''': all trims use 75 kWh usable recurrentauto.com<ref>{{cite web|title=recurrentauto.com|url=https://www.recurrentauto.com/guides/tesla-model-y|publisher=recurrentauto.com|access-date=2025-12-06}}</ref>.
# '''Model Y aero''': Cd = 0.23, area = 2.65 m² .
# '''Cybertruck battery''': ≈123 kWh usable pack .
# '''Cybertruck aero''': Cd ≈ 0.335, frontal area ≈3.372 m² .
* BaseLoad numbers for Model Y and Cybertruck are estimated (rolling resistance + auxiliary) based on similarly sized vehicles due to lack of clear publicly available values.

===== ✅ How to Use This in Your Spreadsheet =====

Set up your spreadsheet columns as follows:

<syntaxhighlight>Model | Battery_kWh | Cd | Area_m2 | BaseLoad_kWh_100mi
Tesla Model Y | 75 | 0.23 | 2.65 | 14
Tesla Cybertruck | 123 | 0.335 | 3.372 | 22

</syntaxhighlight>

Then apply the dynamic energy and range formulas previously provided:

Energy (kWh/100 mi) at speed V (mph):

<syntaxhighlight lang="numbers">= BaseLoad + (0.5 '' Cd '' Area '' 1.225 '' (V '' 0.44704)^3 / 1000) '' (100 / V)

</syntaxhighlight>

Range (mi) at speed V:

<syntaxhighlight lang="numbers">= Battery_kWh / (Energy / 100)

</syntaxhighlight>

This setup enables anyone to plug in any speed or swap in new vehicles easily.

Would you like me to generate a ready-to-import .numbers or .xlsx spreadsheet file with these 11 models and formulas preconfigured?